Super Mind
Podcast #93 — Aired May 23, 2016

This week on BetterWorldians Radio, we’re speaking with Dr. Norman Rosenthal, author of Super Mind: How to Boost Performance and Live a Richer and Happier Life Through Transcendental Meditation. Rosenthal will discuss Super Mind, and tell listeners about the ways Transcendental Meditation (TM) can lead to more creative, more productive, and happier lives. He’ll explain how TM has impacted the lives of “super performers” such as Cameron Diaz, Jerry Seinfeld, and Hugh Jackman.

 

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Dr. Norman Rosenthal
Author, Super Mind

Dr. Norman E. Rosenthal is the world-renowned researcher and psychiatrist who first diagnosed Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) and light therapy to treat it, which he wrote about in the best-seller, Winter Blues. He is the author of 8 other books including Transcendence, a New York Times best-seller, and The Gift of Adversity, a LA Times best-seller. His latest book is SUPER MIND: How to Boost Performance and Live a Richer and Happier Life Through Transcendental Meditation.

Episode Transcript

Raymond Hansell
Hi. Welcome to BetterWorldians Radio. BetterWorldians Radio is a weekly broadcast whose mission is to uplift and inspire you to make the world a better place. I'm Ray Hansell, joined today by my co-host, MarySue Hansell. BetterWorldians Radio is brought to you by the family team that created the popular social game on Facebook called 'A Better World.'. It rewards players for doing good deeds, while helping to raise money and awareness for charities. So far, over 40 million good deeds have been done in 'A Better World' by more than 4 million people. Good deeds include expressions of gratitude, acts of random kindness and sending notes to real-world sick kids, just to name a few. This week on BetterWorldians Radio, we're speaking with Dr. Norman Rosenthal, author of 'Super Mind: How to Boost Performance and Live a Richer and Happier Life Through Transcendental Meditation'. We'll be discussing Super Mind today. Dr. Rosenthal is the world-renowned researcher and psychiatrist who first diagnosed Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) and light therapy to treat it, which he wrote about in the best-seller, Winter Blues. He is the also author of 8 other books including 'Transcendence', a New York Times best-seller, and 'The Gift of Adversity', a LA Times best-seller. Dr. Rosenthal, welcome to BetterWorldians Radio.

Dr. Rosenthal
Thank you, wonderful to be here.

Raymond Hansell
Wonderful to have you. As I was saying right before we started, we just completed our transcendental meditation training, we've read your book, we are ready for this interview. Why don't you tell our listeners to begin with, what is 'Super Mind'?

Dr. Rosenthal
Super Mind is the mind in all its full potential and what I mean by that is performance but also experience, it's the mind at its most creative, most efficient, most productive - as well as the mind that experiences life in its full splendour, wonder, amazement and all its fine-grained detail. So you're having this experience whereby you're living in a very rich way. Incidentally, it doesn't only mean happy times, they can be sad times, they can be mixed times but whatever times they are, you're feeling them and experiencing them as fully as possible., as well as performing to the best of your ability. Maybe realizing that the job you're doing is not really your dharma, it's not really your destiny, that you need to change your course of action of you're going to live fully. It's not all, whatever you're doing, you're going to enjoy doing that. It may not be the right thing, or whatever relationship you're in, it's going to be wonderful- you may not be in a relationship with the right person. But it's finding what you need to do. It's finding who you need to do it with. It's finding what your good deed is that you want to do or what good deed you need to do for yourself in order to fulfill a fully-realized life. These are all aspects of what I've called 'The Super Mind'.

Raymond Hansell
Now, 'The Super Mind' as you describe it, followed your book 'Transcendence'. can you tel our listeners a bit about how these two books differ?

Dr. Rosenthal
Yes, it's really a progression, although 'The Super Mind' can be read absolutely on its own. It's been written so that I never refer back to 'Transcendence'. you don't have to read 'Transcendence' in order to enjoy 'The Super Mind'- it's not a sequel it's a companion volume. But if I tell you how the progression occurred in my own development as a meditator, and in thinking about the issue, this is how it went. I started to meditate in earnest about eight years ago and pretty soon, I was aware of the relief of stress, the increased resilience, the way I didn't make mountains out of mole hills anymore as I had done before. Life just became easier and more pleasant and I thought that was pretty remarkable. I started recommending it to my patients: people who were anxious, people who had anger problems and they began to do better. And I thought, 'this is really remarkable.'. It's a remarkable human experience, it's a remarkable therapeutic tool, went into the literature and I saw hundreds of very nice, well reviewed papers in the literature with very major beneficial effects on blood pressure, on cardio-vascular disease and on psychological function. I though, 'Wow, there's no modern book that really puts this all together.' so that's what 'Transcendence' was. It was all about TM in its capacity to boost health, to relieve stress and to deal with people who were having special difficulties; whether these were prisoners or people in disadvantaged schools; whether they were people with anxious problems or Post-Traumatic Stress or people with addictions. All of these people could benefit and so, I really came at it with a medical perspective, with psychiatric perspective and with a sense of wonderment at the palette of clinical benefits that this tool could provide. When I was done with 'Transcendence' I thought, 'Well, I've said everything I have to say and need to say about the subject of TM.' but actually that turned out not to be true, as my own experience evolved. Now, five years later, almost to the date, and what I've realized is that the process of TM can actually do much, much more than what I've just outlined. Which seems miraculous really, because what I've already said is so much in and of itself. But what then happened, is the consciousness that you normally experience during TM itself, the so-called 'transcendent consciousnesses' - and I can tell you more about that - begins to filter into your daily life. It begins to expand your consciousness on a daily basis, and as that happens, quite aside from repairing any injury, physical or psychological, it grows all the faculties that so many of us desire: authenticity; a capacity to enjoy one's life; clarity of thinking; creativity; efficiency of performance; as well as just the pure joy of living. These all grow, so clearly, what I was looking at here was something vastly greater than what was in 'Transcendence', even though all of that is crucial in its own right. Here I was looking at pushing the mind to its maximum beneficial and functional capacities, and that is what I have called 'The super Mind.'.

Raymond Hansell
Now, for our listeners, so often there's a confusion about what transcendental meditation really is and how it differs from mindfulness. I've been involved in both of these methodologies, I've seen it and experienced it myself. But just in our conversation this past weekend at this retreat for transcendental meditation, it also came up that people thought it had some aspects of this or that. It's easy to confuse. So, for our listeners, how would you define transcendental meditation and how it differs from other things like mindfulness?

Dr. Rosenthal
Yes, thank you for the question. It's something I've given a lot of thought to. Actually, I have a whole chapter in the book devoted to the compare and contrast. These are both great traditions. Mindfulness comes from the Buddhist tradition, transcendental meditation comes from the Vedic tradition. Both have been stripped, as it were, from the cultural or quasi-religious roots so they are capable of being administered as stand-alone techniques. Both have vast followings and are moving into various fields: be that education or the medical field in terms of seeing what they can do to relieve suffering. In terms of what they aspire to do and how they aspire to improve people's lives, there is a lot in common. But the practice itself is very, very different. Here is, the way I see it, the difference and why it's so relevant for our topic for today. Mindfulness, as I see it, is a process of instructing the meditator to focus on something, whether it is the day-to-day experience of life, the breath, a thought, loving kindness, an image, the way one goes about one's daily life and all the little moment-to-moment experiences one has. Beyond that actual practice is the philosophical idea that what you'll get by this moment-to-moment mindfulness is a true insight - 'vipassana' means insight, which is a form of mindfulness - an insight into what life really means, what the world is really about, who you really are and how things change from moment to moment. That is a very valuable acquisition in its own right. There is no aspiration to change consciousness, so that isn't part of the deal or part of the thinking. There are de-emphasized aspects of Buddhist meditation, so-called 'Djanas' that do aspire to shift consciousness but they are very much in a decline in modern Western thinking. They still are practiced but they're the minority. That's not what you think about when you talk about mindfulness. Let's shift now to transcendence or transcendental meditation. What we have here is people being taught, in a very standardized way, given a mantra and they are taught to think or access the mantra. Now, you might say,'Well, aren't they focusing on the mantra?' but the fact is, the really aren't. They aren't focusing on the mantra, they're accessing it in an automatic fashion, and when you do that, as you practice it -and you don't have to practice for very long - you move into a state of consciousness that's called 'transcendent consciousness'. What is that? It is not ordinary waking, sleeping or dreaming. It's something really rather different. It is a state where you are conscious but there's actually no content to the consciousness. You are alert but you are very calm. At the same time, boundaries seem to melt away and disappear. What is the date today? Is it Tuesday? Is it Thursday? Is it nine o'clock in the morning or three o'clock in the afternoon? I don't know and I don't care because I'm in transcendent consciousness where time and space, all seems to dissolve away and instead I go to a place that's very blissful and where I'm accessing some deep part of myself that feels very wonderful. That is the so-called 'fourth state of consciousness'. What happens is, as one moves out of these meditative sessions and as one continues to meditate, this consciousness begins to filter into one's daily life and there it sits, side-by-side with your ordinary activity. Adn it's as though two television channels are operating at the same time but not interfering with each other in any way. You've got the steadiness, the calmness, this ease of the transcendence sitting side-by side with the ups and downs, the changing activities of daily life and somehow, that mixture of these two states, is extremely beneficial and many gifts accrue as a result of them- including, paradoxically, mindfulness itself. Many seasoned meditators with TM say, 'You know, I've become more mindful than ever since I've started transcendental meditation.'. so it's a different way of getting to some really good stuff.

Raymond Hansell
, Yes, I've already experienced a little bit of this. One of the things I think was rather unusual - and of course I don't believe in coincidences - but the instructor spoke at some point about how, when you cut yourself, you put a band-aid and perhaps a little bit of medication, and the body begins to heal itself. And I think that what feels very different about transcendental meditation, in this very early stage for me, is that you're allowing for this to happen. You're just going to a place where the body, through this process, begins to heal itself. Much like the physical body heals itself when it's wounded. there's a lot of allowing that goes on, a lot of less effort, which I think is paradoxical. It sort of reminds me o the game of golf, in which the best players are actually in a state, a zone and they're allowing this to just flow. Once the eye-hand co-ordination is memorized it just begins to happen if you just flow into it. I think there's an ease about that that really distinguishes it from something that requires effort and focus. So, that's my early stage experience. It doesn't, by any chance I suppose, compare to what you've been through all these years but it's an interesting contrast.

Dr. Rosenthal
Well, you know, I would respond by saying- excuse me, you have a question?

Raymond Hansell
No, go ahead.

Dr. Rosenthal
I would respond by saying that I am so thrilled that you have Super Mind to look to, because I think everybody is experiencing these Super Mind changes very, very early that you're experiencing. But unless you are sensitized to look for them, you may not even notice them until they've accumulated to a sufficient degree, thereby losing out on some of the fun and the joy of seeing the early growth of the Super Mind. This growth of consciousness has been compared to being in a dark room where the light is gradually turned on and things gradually become visible bit by bit. But sometimes you don't really realize it until the light is fully turned on and everything is revealed. This way, knowing that the light is being turned on, even from the earliest time, enables you to say, 'Oh, look, there's the phone, there are my clothes, there's this, there's that.'. You're beginning to already see and also your experience with mindfulness that enables you to make this contrast and see, 'Wait a sec, I'm not focusing, I'm allowing.'. Things are happening almost by magic, feels like almost by magic. I'm not responding, I'm not reacting like i was, I don't care as much. I can detach from things. I don't have to over-attach to things that don't really matter and it's a very delightful set of discoveries that each of us makes for ourselves, no matter where we are in the journey.

Raymond Hansell
Yes, I noticed it. the other thing that's struck me so far, has been the contrast between this and the notion that it has some - you mentioned this earlier in our conversation - connection with, disconnection from a cultural or faith-based thing. In effect, this in now way impacts the belief system off a practitioner. You could be Christian, you could be Buddhist, you could be Muslim, you could be Jewish, you could be anything, still continue to practice this. If anything, it may enhance what you're doing because it now way gets in the way of any of that. In fact, the people that were in the training session--

Dr. Rosenthal
-- Yes, I see no conflict. It's stand-alone.

Raymond Hansell
Yes, absolutely. That another really nice thing about the whole things is that is doesn't get in the way. There's nothing to gets in its way. What do you see as some of the physical benefits of the Super Mind?

Dr. Rosenthal
The physical benefits are really vast. There are several, many controlled studies of blood pressure, where the blood pressure is reduced and there are studies showing that the death rate by cardio-vascular disease and other diseases is greatly decreased. In one study where they retrospectively looked at people who had gone through the blood pressure controlled studies, they looked back and they looked at death records in the counties where they had been studied. They found a 23% decrease in death records over ten years, and a 30% decrease in cardio-vascular deaths. Then they did a controlled study, prospectively, where they similarly found a huge decrease in death rates from heart attack, from stroke. these people were already getting all the normal cholesterol-lowering medicines, blood pressure-lowering medicines, dietary advice- all the counselling. And yet, just adding the TM gave about a 50% drop in death rate in these people who were at risk fro cardiac and cardio-vascular problems. So, they're huge, really. And there are many others as well that I won't even enumerate. What I would like to say is, I have in my book, one of the people I have interviewed and presented is the luminous New York City Ballet prima ballerina, Megan Fairchild. I had the joy of having breakfast with her here in the city this morning. Her story is remarkable in itself but also as an illustration of how the Super Mind grows, because she initially did TM because she was having fainting episodes and as you can imagine, for a ballerina, this could be the kiss of death to a career. So she was encouraged to learn TM and the fainting episodes went away completely. Now, sixths can all by itself be regarded as pretty wonderful. Here you do a technique, it has no side-effects, it takes away the problem you've looked at, it settles your physiology down, end of story. But it was not the end of the story, it was just the beginning of a story. As she continues to meditate, she started to grow her Super Mind. previously, she had been a perfectionist who - even if, as a child, she colored outside the lines, she would tear it up and say, 'I have to start my life all over again.' - an absolute perfectionist. Couldn't tolerate making mistakes. And as she began to meditate, she began to shift her perspective and say, 'You know, if you don't make mistakes, if you're not willing to make mistakes, youll never take risks.' and she began to take some risks, including auditioning for a Broadway show, which would previously have been unthinkable on the town. She went to audition and had somebody teach her how to sing a song, how to talk from the stage, got the role in the audition room and, fr a year, was part of this very successful Broadway show and her whole life just kind of opened up. she developed new channels, new friends, new networks, new skills. So, something that started off as a way of treating a physical symptom became a game-changer and a life-changer. And that's how the Super Mind works.

Raymond Hansell
That's fascinating. That is really good. I urge our listeners to pick this book up because it's so full of these kinds of examples of every day people, people you may not have heard of, as well as some really successful performers in various aspects of life - including the performing arts - that have had some really profound effects of a steady diet of transcendental meditation. Just to highlight, what are some of the psychological benefits of Super Mind?

Dr. Rosenthal
I'm glad you asked because I can almost go down through the chapter list and tell you. Connecting mind and body- so in part that's physical but in part that's psychological because it's feeling more comfortable in your own skin. Building a better brain: that chapter talks about improvements in memory. I have a wonderful story about Cameron Diaz on a film set. It was very hot, it was in a hot car at the Los Angeles Zoo and she couldn't remember her lines which she'd memorized hundreds of times. So she said, 'Listen, I need a 25 minute break.', went to her trailer, did her Tm, came back and nailed it. And everybody was delighted that they could get out of that heat. So, memory comes back. Marvellous example of a friend of mine, a physiotherapist, who with her husband - a fellow professional - were going to trade in their car. And yo know, methodologically, these two obsessional people swept through the car to make sure the old car had nothing left of value, took it in, did a second go-through at the garage, came home fully satisfied. Only when she was meditating the next day, did she recall that the easy pass behind the rear-view mirror, the windshield, that that had been left behind. That could've accrued hundreds of dollars of expenses. It was actually the most valuable thing in the car but it didn't come about while she was being mindful. As she was mindfully focusing on every aspect of the car, it didn't happen. But when she went into the transcendence, somewhere in her brain this gift was delivered that, 'wow, you've left the most valuable thing behind.'. and so, there's a psychological benefit right there. Being in the zone, you've talked about being in the zone and I feature a friend of mine, Barry Zito, former pitcher for the San Francisco Giants and how he was in the zone during a crucial match in the play-offs in a World Series where the Giants went on to win the World Series. They talk about a game-changer- that was a game-changer. It was a pivotal game so being in the zone- many, many examples in the book. Internal growth. Hugh Jackman talking about how he has become more authentic, he's found out who he really is and that's a fascinating story in itself- too long to go into. Then, another super performer finding out, not only who she is - this is Lindsey Adelman, creative chandelier manufacturer, designer and manufacturer here in Manhattan, these very up-scale, brilliantly gorgeous modern chandeliers - how she's changed as a human being. It's not only finding out who you are, it's finding out who you want to become. Then, engagement and detachment. When I was learning to become a psychiatrist, I learned how to love and how to work, how to be engaged in your human and work environments. But I never learnt about detachment, a very, very important quality and we can talk more about that. The last two chapters: 'How to grow rich' and 'How to be happy' with the help of the Super Mind.

Raymond Hansell
We're going to take a short break right now. When we return, we'll talk more with Dr. Norman Rosenthal, author of 'Super Mind' and co-host MarySue Hansell. In the meantime, if you're a fan of BetterWorldians Radio, please check out our game on Facebook called 'A Better World.' A Better World encourages habits of goodness, positive mindsets and giving to social causes to make a positive difference in the world. Players actually do things like express gratitude; share of their real-world acts of kindness; send get-well notes to real-world sick children and many, many more. We'd like to congratulate our players in A Better World this month for a successful April challenge with the Kelly Anne Dolan Memorial Fund. Because you reached our Do-Good goal, we released funds to help support families caring for children with serious illness. And we're excited to announce that Emily's Entourage is our charity partner of the month for May. When our players complete the Good Deed challenge this month, and they're well on their way, we will release funds to help accelerate research for a cure for cystic fibrosis, with a focus on rare mutations. You can find out more about us and play at facebook.com/abetterworld. We'll be right back.

Raymond Hansell
You're listening to BetterWorldians Radio. We're speaking with Dr. Norman Rosenthal, author of 'Super Mind'. Now, let's welcome back Dr. Rosenthal and my co-host, MarySue Hansell.

MarySue Hansell
Hi Dr. Norm.

Dr. Rosenthal
Hi there.

MarySue Hansell
Just great to be able to chat with you today, after going to the TM course and reading your book. We are loving it here. So, I'm curious, can the Super Mind be measured?

Dr. Rosenthal
Well, I did created - with the help of some colleagues - a Super Mind questionnaire, which is really the Cosmic Integration questionnaire, but it's actually like a Super Mind questionnaire and it has various factors in it. One is the growth of consciousness, so all questions that lead to that scale, and one is the gifts of the super Mind, which is another scale. Those gifts we analyzed. We gave it to over 600 people and 80% were from the US, 20% from South Africa, where my original TM teacher still works and teaches and helped me gather those people. so, I was able to analyze it statistically and show that, in fact, the growth of consciousness occurs with time and regularity of practice. and that the growth of consciousness actually predicts the growth of the gifts. That the two seem to be part of the same process. We factorized the gifts - what were they - and the fell into three categories. One was called 'Internal Growth'; one was called 'Being in the Zone' and one was called 'The Support of Nature'. That last term might sound a little mysterious, but basically what it means is a feeling that the world is becoming a more co-operative pace, that things are going your way more frequently. These are all things that develop as part of the growth of the Super Mind.

MarySue Hansell
That's interesting. What seems to predict the growth of the Super Mind? Is it more the practice of it?

Dr. Rosenthal
Regularity and duration are the two biggest predictors that emerged from the- I'm sure it's different in different people. some people may have a sudden growth of the Super mind, for example, in one of the last chapters I talk about what I call' transcendent surprises'. People who, out of the blue, have these flashes of experience that William James has actually written about in the varieties of religious experience. One of them is Eckhart Tolle, in his 'The Power of Now' describes just waking up and having had almost this transformation in the middle of the night, that then goes on to help him live in the present and in a fuller way. That sounds remarkably like the Super Mind but these kinds of out of the blue experiences that are powerful and transformative are certainly very unusual. Mostly, it's just people like you and me, who do our meditation every day and little by little bit begin to notice certain things. I'm so curious as to whether - I know you've just learnt your TM - are you noticing any things that are happening during the daytime that may be a little different from before? Or nothing yet?

MarySue Hansell
I think I'm a little bit calmer. As I said, I practice mindfulness, but this seems to have a different effect. You seem to see things before you react to them.

Dr. Rosenthal
Yes, that is such a very, very crucial thing. Actually the most amazing story of that- I wrote about that actually in my earlier book, 'Transcendence'. A felon in the California Penitentiary system who just couldn't stop himself from reacting immediately, including killing people, who finally learnt TM that gave him that extra 2, 3, 4 seconds that made all the difference, that enabled him- he remembered the exact example where he could walk away from a provocation. And that was the turning point because he actually, finally was able to get agency of his actions and gain some measure of control of his life and his whole life turned around. 'The Super Mind' is really a book, not about felons and the penitentiary system. 'The Super Mind' is a book about regular people, who so appreciate not saying that thing that was on the tip of your tongue, which would have been quite impolitic or even hurtful or whatever. And not firing off that angry email but waiting for the next morning. You could call them First World Problems but we live in the First World, if we're lucky, some of us, and we do have those day-to-day concerns and there are early signs that something is happening.

MarySue Hansell
I was so surprised after reading all of the benefits. That's why I said to Ray, 'Hey, we have to do this. this sounds too good to be true.'. So, we'll be reporting to you in the future about all these wonderful things. I think maybe we should do a follow-up interview to chat about it.

Dr. Rosenthal
I think that would be terrific fun and we could all just share the discoveries we have made because this is a progressive process. That's the wonderful thing that I've learnt. Just when you think you've nailed it, new things happen and it's rather exciting and very enjoyable and interesting. So I would love to do that.

MarySue Hansell
Yes, it seems like such a healing process and one of my things that I like to get involved with are all different healing modalities and I said, 'I don't know how I missed this.'. So, it was so good to read your book. But anyway, how often do you recommend people should meditate?

Dr. Rosenthal
The standard recommendation is twice a day for twenty minutes each time. Twenty minutes, it's a little bit different, because often times there's like half a minute of just settling into it. You can't just hit the ground running so to speak. You settle in for half a minute and then they recommend you take two or three minutes to emerge so that the wonderful transcendence that you experienced during the actual meditation carries over into your ordinary day, so you don't just jump up and try and transition too abruptly. So 23 minutes may be, sometimes you may need to cut it a little short if time is scarce. But I would say a total of 40, 45 minutes for both sessions is more than enough to promote all the benefits that we've been talking about.

MarySue Hansell
I wanted to ask your opinion. Say if you have a stressful situation coming up, should you meditate right before?

Dr. Rosenthal
Many people do. Many people do. I know that, for example, Hugh Jackman talks about meditating before he hosted the Oscars. An actress, Katie Finneran, two time Tony winning actress, mediates before she goes on stage. And sometimes this can be the mediation you were going to do anyway but you just time it to be before you know you're going to have a stressful experience. Sometimes people meditate a little bit extra but it's not necessary and meditation on a kind of as-needed basis is not really part of the deal. The deal is that if you do those twice a day you get a steadiness that normally will carry you through and that is how we usually do it.

MarySue Hansell
I'm very looking forward to that and I would love to recommend it to people I know that have really high anxiety. I see from the book that it has a big calming effect on those type of people.

Dr. Rosenthal
Yes, and I think it's also very nice that you can say, you know, all of us can grow as people. It's interesting, in my earlier book, a colleague had said that three people in a week had told him that he was one of the most nervous people they'd ever encountered. That's when he did the TM. One doesn't have to say, 'You know, you're such a bundle of nerves. Go read this book.' There are all these benefits that we can all reap from the process.

MarySue Hansell
You mentioned and talked a little bit earlier about 'super performers'. What is your definition of a 'super performer'?

Dr. Rosenthal
I think it's hard to define but we know it when we see it. People who are really at the top of their game. This could be people who are running a wonderful podcast like you are. Or it could be people writing a book but it could also be very conspicuous celebrities: Hugh Jackman, obviously, who's in the book, is a super performer. Ray Dalio, who is in the book, who is the founder of the biggest hedge fund in the world. But I would hesitate to put the bar so high. Anybody who is at the top of their game. I don't want to leave people with the impression that if they're not performing at these internationally-recognized levels they're not super performers. I think it's just doing the very best you can and how many of us can do better. Sometimes it means changing your occupation, sometimes it means getting a job change or doing something a little different. Be in a different relationship, moving to a different place. Whatever it is that you're recognizing is holding you back from being the best person you can be. You're emphasizing good deeds, maybe people can be super performers in the philanthropic area. That's a wonderful thing. So, performance and living well move one into the other. Because performance makes it sound like you're doing something for someone else but when you're growing your Super Mind - first and foremost - you're doing it for yourself. That entity that the psychologist Abraham Maslow called 'self-actualization'. He said, 'A painter must paint. a musician must make music. A writer must write. Each of us must do what we are capable of doing if we are to feel fully satisfied and fulfilled in our lives.'. That's being a super performer.

MarySue Hansell
That's beautiful. You mention in the book that super Mind can help you to be richer and happier. All our listeners are probably at the edge of their seat, wondering how will this happen?

Dr. Rosenthal
I did ask a friend, he's in the book, Mark Axelowitz, has now become a really wonderful friend. It is funny that people in the book have actually become friends because once you get to understand a person, especially the most joyful aspects of that person's being, it's hard not to feel like you've made a new friend. Mark is one of those people. I asked him, 'Do you think that meditating can help you become richer?' and he answered. 'You know, meditating with TM can help you do anything better. Making money is just one skill and you can become better at that skill.'. I said, 'How?' and he said - and this was also other people's answers compressed into one - 'Well, they make you a better listener.'. Often times you go into a business meeting and people will be on their Blackberries or distracted. They won't even be listening to what the speaker is saying. To listen in the business world, to really hear. Your client comes in and you really listen and you really get it that they want to be conservative in their investments. You don't push them into an area that they're uncomfortable with. you're more in touch, you're more in tune. It helps you make clever risks, not dangerous risks, calculated decisions. Just what you were saying a little earlier Ray, it gives you those extra couple of seconds or maybe MarySue, you were saying that. It gives you that little extra time to make your judgment, not to have to feel like you have to be reflexive and respond right away, even to say, 'You know, let me think about that.'. That's a really important question. i don't want to give you an off the cuff answer. I think somebody would really appreciate that instead of a person who feels insecure and feels like if he doesn't answer right off the cuff, somebody will think he's not that competent. An authentic person understands that sometimes you don't have an answer right off the cuff and a client will appreciate the idea that somebody is going to research a question and not just give them a snap judgment. I think that all these things are very helpful. Creativity, the kind of creativity I was talking about earlier: the realization that your easy pass is behind the rear view mirror, could just as easily be a realization that, 'Wait a sec. I need to return Mr. So-and-so's call. I haven't done that yet.'. Little bits and pieces of undone business that get presented. The other thing that you'll find, if you haven't already, is that creative associations occur. Things that you would think would be obvious. Here's a little example, which might seem silly, but at the time was really enormous for me. I was finishing an earlier book, 'Transcendence', and at the same time I got galleys for a revision of an even earlier book called 'Winter Blues', so I had to proofread the galleys and I know from experience that if you don't proof those galleys carefully, some very embarrassing mistakes can creep through. And that is because we often sue mechanical things like spell check. And spell check can find a word that's like 'peace' - when you say, Let there be peace in the home.' - and it's spelled 'p-i-e-c-e', it won't tell you that it's the wrong spelling and then a beautiful sentiment becomes a joke because of the typo. So you have to have human eye go over it and it was 18 hours of work. I just didn't know when I was going to do it. In the meditation it came to me that it needed to be done but I didn't have to do it. Somebody else could do it. Immediately that opened up a path to, 'Who else could do it.'. As I'm saying it now, it's easy to think,'Well, duh why didn't you think about that in the first pace?' but at the time, I was making the assumption that I was the only one who could do it. That was, in fact, untrue. That's another realization that came to me during a meditation session. I 'd made a bad business decision. I had taken a rental - I was having a clinical research organization, that was beautifully expanding so I'd taken on an extra rental - that committed me for several years. And just then the economy imploded with the pharmaceutical industry, along with the rest of it, and I was stuck with a rental that wasn't being defrayed by revenues. I was very angry with myself, I blamed myself. I said, I made a bad judgment, it was stupid. In the middle of a meditation session it occurred to me what Kierkegaard had said, 'We understand life best backwards but we have to live it forwards.'. It was very harsh of me to judge myself based on this retrospective recognition that I could not have recognized at the time. At the time I made the best decision I could and I needed to forgive myself. And after that meditation session I never again blamed myself for that judgment call. It was remarkable. so, there's a creative process that goes on in the meditative state and in between that all contributes to the growth of this wonderful entity that we've been talking about.

Raymond Hansell
That's amazing. This has been an amazing show for our listeners and particularly for us here as hosts on a BetterWorldians Radio because we just recently went through this. It's fresh in our minds, it's a fresh experience and so it's exciting. We're sort of new learners, if you will. I have to ask you, in summary, how do you hope the lessons learnt in a Super Mind can help make the world a better place?

Dr. Rosenthal
What I hope is anybody reading 'The Super Mind' will have little channels opened up in their minds about possibilities that they never thought existed or undreamed of. And that hopes that they've had or goals that they've had, that previously seemed blocked, that there now opened up fro them a methodology by which these goals could be achieved or pathways could be opened which might lead to the accomplishment of their goals. Or other goals that they don't even realize right now. think that by recognizing that they don't have to have any problem in order to benefit. That all of us, wherever we are in life's journey, can move along further and in different ways than we have anticipated. That life is full of surprises and amazing things just round the corner. We may think we're stuck but just stick your head a little bit to one side and you'll see that what seemed like a solid wall, is actual a passage way. Push on a special button on panelled wall, and a magic door springs open. It's these kinds of developments, be they slow or be they dramatic, that exist and are available to all of us. That is how I think this book can make the world a better place, by opening people's eyes and their minds to possibilities that they didn't know existed because I didn't know that they existed, and I was a psychiatrist with over 30 years' experience. I have been amazed and astonished by these developments in myself and in others and that is the reason I feel so thrilled and compelled to share them with you guys and your wonderful audience. So thank you for that opportunity.

Raymond Hansell
You're very welcome. If you, as listeners, if you want to see if you can push that magic button, I would encourage you - to begin with - to get a copy of 'Super Mind', read about this and as you look into it further, feel free to investigate transcendental meditation, which is what this book is all about, and the benefits that are derived from this process is some thing we're hoping to achieve more and more of. Already we see some of the early stage promises right in front of us. You can learn more about all this by going to normanrosenthal.com. Dr. Norman, thank you for joining us on BetterWorldians Radio today.

Dr. Rosenthal
It was really a joy. Thanks to both of you and all the best in your own journey.

Raymond Hansell
We thank you very much. By the way, if you're enjoying this episode of BetterWorldians Radio, please be sure to subscribe to our show on iTunes and give us a review. We're always listening to your feedback, we want to know what you think. As we end our show each week, we'd like to share our BetterWorldians mission. We strive to make the world a better place by encouraging the best in everyone. We focus on positive thinking, positive values and positive actions. In short, our vision is to bring out the BetterWorldians in everyone, so that we can all make it a better world. So until next time, everybody please, be a BetterWorldian.