A Mission to End Bullying
Podcast #16 — Aired February 6, 2014

Do you want to learn how you can help identify and prevent bullying? This week on BetterWorldians Radio we’ll talk about why bullying happens and how to stop it. Our guests this week are Country Singer Josey Milner and Kim Harvey, the founder of Angels & Doves, a non-profit with a mission to end bullying. Josey and Kim will discuss what they are doing to help put a stop to bullying in schools and how you can get involved. Tune in every week to hear new guests share how they are making the world a better place and to learn how you can become a BetterWorldian!

 

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Josey Milner
Angel Ambassador, Angels & Doves

Josey Milner is part small town teen, part road-worthy country starlet, and at only 18 years old, she turned heads and changed hearts with her debut US single, “Not Pretty Enough.” The song thrust Josey into the country music spotlight, launching her anti-bullying campaign with Angels and Doves, earning her a 2013 Independent Country Music Award nomination for Promising Young Artist, a Top 10 Hottest New Artist designation, and a Number One single on the world’s first independent country music chart, Indie World. Josey’s latest single is the aptly titled, “Cowgirls.”

Kim Harvey
Co-Founder, Angels & Doves Author, The Bully Book

Kim Harvey is the co-founder of Angels & Doves, a non-profit with the mission to end bullying. With a background in psychology, Kim travels to schools to speak with students about the effects of bullying. Kim is the creator of a line of NO Bully products; shirts in five designs and eight sizes, school notebooks and matching backpacks. Kim is the author of The Bully Book, a workbook for children that teaches about bullying and aggression.

Episode Transcript

Raymond Hansell
Our first guest today is Kim Harvey, the co-founder of Angels and Doves, a non-profit with a mission to end bullying. With a background in psychology, Kim travels to schools to speak with students about the effects of bullying. Kim is the creator of a line of no bullying products, shirts, school notebooks, and matching backpacks. Kim is also the author of The Bully Book, a workbook for children that teaches about bullying and aggression. Also joining us a little later today is country singer Josey Milner. Josey Milner is a part-time teen, part road worthy country starlet, and at only eighteen years old, she turned heads and changed hearts with her debut US single, Not Pretty Enough. The song which well be hearing later in the show thrust Josey into the country music starlight, launching her anti-bullying campaign with Angels and Doves, earning her a 2013 independent country music award nomination for promising young artist, a top ten hottest new artist designation, and a number one single on the worlds first independent country music chart, Indie World. Joseys latest single in the aptly titled Cowgirls. Well talk with Josey in just a bit but first, lets welcome aboard Kim Harvey. Kim, thank you so much for joining us today and welcome to Better Worldians Radio.

Kim Harvey
Well thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it.

Raymond Hansell
Youre very welcome. Now let me start out by saying that you started Angels and Doves, a non-profit with a goal to put an end to bullying with your mother just three years ago. What inspired you to start that organization?

Kim Harvey
The fact that my mother and I were seeing that very, very young children were actually taking their own lives and these were children that were eight, nine, and ten years old and neither one of us could believe it. And what was more horrifying is that they were actually hanging themselves somewhere in their homes or around their homes and the fact that they knew how to do it and that they were depressed enough to find out how to do it and that it was related to being bullied. So because I had a background in psychology from college, my mother actually came up with the name of the charity and then I put my education behind the charity and we just immediately started doing things. We became a 501c3 which makes us a non-profit with the IRS and I started calling schools and all of a sudden I found myself being interviewed on television every couple of weeks so there was a real need for what we were doing and we were really welcomed with open arms.

Raymond Hansell
Now you actually go to schools to talk about the effects of bullying. Can you tell us a little bit about that work?

Kim Harvey
Yes. So far I have actually spoken to a little over ten thousand students in three states and quite frankly, I wish that it was one hundred thousand students. I do go out. I do speak in schools. I work within their class period so it doesnt disrupt the schools day and I speak to all grade levels all of the way up to grade twelve. The presentation is suited for the age range. So if I am speaking to elementary students, its a little bit different and more on their age level. But when I am speaking to the eighth graders through the twelfth graders, it is more in detail. My program is not a puppet show. It is not a dog and pony show. It is serious and it is based on facts and pictures and statistics and we talk about suicide, you know, not to scare them but with the permission of the schools principal and counselors, we do talk about the fact that children that are terribly bullied are committing suicide. And, you know, when I am there speaking the school and I am watching the students react as I am saying these things, its like theyve heard about it but they didnt really believe that it might be true. So its a whole different scenario when they actually hear about it and see pictures and see someone speaking about it.

Raymond Hansell
My goodness. You not only talk to people who are bullied but from what I understand, you also talk about the bullies themselves. What do you say to somebody who is a bully?

Kim Harvey
You know, that is a very good question and with my background in psychology but also with my background for just loving people, you know, we have to love one another first and foremost and we have to love everybody and we have to support and uplift other people. So my my dedication to trying to end bullying is to also support the bully and show them that I love them too and show them that other people love them. And, you know, when you soften a persons heart, typically it softens them immediately. So when I speak to the bully, I let them know that we understand that they must be having a serious problem in their life or they wouldnt be bullying other people. And that is how I approach them and typically it makes them soften and convert and they change while I am there for that hour speaking to their school.

Raymond Hansell
That is really incredible. What has been one of the more rewarding experiences that you have had at these schools?

Kim Harvey
Im sorry, one of the more rewarding?

Raymond Hansell
Experiences youve had as you speak at the schools?

Kim Harvey
Yes, well its kind of an extension of what I was just mentioning. Actually the last school that I spoke at, it was a middle school and I was talking about bullying and I actually saw five students begin to cry in the bleachers. And when it was over, a group of girls came down from the bleachers to speak to me in person and to, you know, shake hands, and we always hug. And they asked me if I saw the students that started crying and I said that I did. And they said do you realize that those were the bullies and I said no. And they told me that they were the bullies and that I had reached them on such a deep level that they went to the principals office and said we listened to what Kim said. We feel so badly. We will never ever bully again and we want to apologize. That was the most rewarding thing that has happened in all of the schools that I have spoken to.

Raymond Hansell
What a wonderful experience for you to have and also for those kids. So lets talk a bit about your angel ambassador, country music artist Josey Milner who will be joining us in a minute. Now, youre partnering with Josey to help spread with anti-bullying I should say stop bullying message. Tell us about how that partnership came to be.

Kim Harvey
Well, I think music is a beautiful thing in peoples lives and music is very uplifting. It doesnt matter what type of music it is. If it is your type of music, it makes you happy. It makes your heart sing. Its uplifting. And Joseys manager contacted me and showed me Josey and let me listen to her music and said that she had a heart to end bullying and, you know, any time a teenager takes a stand against something, I think that that is phenomenal. She could be doing a million things as a teenager but she has actually embraced a cause and her heart is in it and I think that that is just tremendous. And then additionally, she is a very beautiful young girl and she sings terrifically so, you know, Josey wants to hold more concerts, bigger concerts, and tour more and help raise funds at her shows so that she can give a percentage to Angels and Doves to help us get into more schools. And additionally, we want to begin taking Josey with us into the schools so that she can sing after I have actually given my presentation. Its a really its a beautiful partnership.

Raymond Hansell
I can see that. Were going to were looking forward to hearing her voice and also hearing this wonderful song that seems like its a bit of an anthem for the stop bullying movement, and I can certainly resonate with the fact that music is being really a powerful vehicle to carry this message. Were going to take a break right now. Id like to offer this challenge to our listeners. If you know someone whose acts no matter how small are making a difference in the lives of other people in the world, wed sure love to hear about them. So tweet us at hashtag Better Worldians so we can let the Better Worldian community know. When we come back, well talk with country singer Josey Milner about her part in this in this mission to end bullying. In the meantime, you can learn more at Better Worldians dot com and follow our live tweets at Twitter dot com slash Better Worldians. Well be right back now.

Raymond Hansell
Hi. Were back with Kim Harvey and Josey Milner. Well have more with them in a moment but first I would like to share some big news here at Better Worldians Radio. Weve recently launched a world-wide kindness campaign. Were challenging better worldians around the globe to watch a two minute video that illustrates the power of kindness. When we reach one million views, we will release funds for surgeries that will allow ten kids in the developing world to walk for the first time. Please watch the video, share it with your friends at Color with Kindness dot com. That is Color with Kindness dot com. And now lets welcome country singer Josey Milner to the show.

MarySue Hansell
Hi, Josey. Its MarySue.

Josey Milner
Hello.

MarySue Hansell
How are you?

Josey Milner
Im doing great. How are you?

MarySue Hansell
Great. You know, Josey, youre embarking on a country music career and on this journey, youve discovered Angels and Doves. Why did you decide it was an organization you wanted to partner with?

Josey Milner
You know, I decided that theyd be a great one to partner with because of what theyre doing. You know, bullying is such a huge problem now and you know, the suicide part of it is just such a huge problem and you never want to hear someone has taken their life because they feel like thats the only way out of the situation. For them to be really focused on preventing the bullying suicides, I just thought that was amazing. You hear organizations that of course are wanting to end bullying, but youre not seeing people who want to specifically help end bullying suicides. I just thought it was great for them to really be focusing on that and I really wanted to be able to take part and to really kind of step up and show that is how I feel the same way. I feel like everyone should feel the same. No one should feel like theyre not good enough to be here anymore.

MarySue Hansell
What exactly is your role with Angels and Doves?

Josey Milner
My role is just to kind of get the word out about Angels and Doves and talk about what theyre doing. And then hopefully here soon I will be able to go around to schools and talk to, along with Angels and Doves, kind of be at the schools with them during the presentations and perform afterwards. And of course, at my shows they talk about them all the time and trying to help, like, trying to get the money to to give to them for them to be able to go to schools, for them to have the presentations, so its just a little bit of everything.

MarySue Hansell
Yeah, that sounds great. It sounds good that youll be doing concerts and helping to donate to the cause. Its a wonderful cause. Have you heard stories from your fans that have really reinforced your commitment to anti-bullying?

Josey Milner
Definitely. Whenever I released Not Pretty Enough, I had a lot of feedback from that song and I had so many people message me on Facebook or find me at shows and tell me how much that song really impacted me or impacted them because of that song. And, you know, its really heartwarming to know that my song has made a difference to some people and that is for such a good cause. I think the most heartwarming story for me was actually my grandmother, a lady that she works with, she listens to my song every day because she says it just helps her get through that day just a little bit better. And, you know, for her to really take on the song, to really love the song as much as she does, for it to make her day better and have that smile on her face because of that song, its just really nice to know that its so appreciated.

MarySue Hansell
Did you say it was your grandmother?

Josey Milner
My one of the workers that my grandmother works with.

MarySue Hansell
Oh, thats great. Now, Josey, have you ever experienced bullying firsthand yourself?

Josey Milner
I have never been a victim myself but I have witnessed it. I am still in high school so of course its going to be something that youll see. Every time I have seen it, I have stepped up to do something about it. There was actually one time where my friend in class, it was the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen, but she just decided to throw a piece of paper at a classmate across the room just because she felt like it and, you know, that might not seem like a huge thing but it is still bullying and Im serious, I turned around. What are you doing right now? Are you serious? Did you really just do that? You know, she just was just kind of taken aback by it because she didnt think it was that big of a deal. You know, I definitely dont think its any I definitely do take a stand against any kind of act, even as small as that.

MarySue Hansell
So what was your message to these kids that youve seen being bullied?

Josey Milner
You know, my message to them is just to keep your head high and dont ever let someone tell you that youre not worth being here. We all breathe the same air and we all should be allowed the same opportunities no matter what and you know, even if your interests are different, how you dress is different, or anything on that basis, there is no reason you should be picked on because of what makes you happy. And so you just kind of make sure you have the good people in your lives that are there to make you smile and make you feel like youre worthy of it. You just cant let the people who are trying to tear you down, you cant let them tear you down. You just have to push it in the back of your mind, talk to people about it. Make sure theyre aware that things are being done so the situation will be taken care of and just keep a high head on your shoulders and youll be able to get through it.

MarySue Hansell
Have you had a case where youve had to back down a bully and stand up for somebody else, you know, one of your school mates?

Josey Milner
I I like I said, there have been many instances where I have had to stand up, even a friend who has been picking on someone or if it has been a friend that has been picked on. No matter what, even if I am friends with them, if theyre being a bully, I always stand up for it. I dont believe it is right at all and even if I am friends with them, I wont be friends with them just because of that reason. Its not right and so youve got to take a stand against it. You cant just let it happen.

MarySue Hansell
Now do you see it quite a bit?

Josey Milner
Not as much honestly as I used to. I used to see it quite often whenever I was a freshman. But now that I am a high schooler, I think people maybe are just maturing a little bit more or something has gotten into them to really realize its not right. But its definitely I dont believe its as bad as it used to be which is a very good thing I guess you could consider.

MarySue Hansell
Oh, thats great. And I guess youll be training with Kim. What have you done that kind of training with her so far?

Josey Milner
I have not. You know, we havent really had a chance to go out and meet up a whole lot and talk about a whole lot of things because we live in two different states and kind of have two different schedules. But, you know, with me graduating here soon, Ill definitely have a lot more free time to be able to really kind of join up with them and really hit things hard.

MarySue Hansell
Very interesting. You know, we really would love to hear your song, Not Pretty Enough. So were going to take a break right now and were going to introduce Josey Milner, Not Pretty Enough. Here she is. That was great. I love that song. What kind of feedback have you gotten from that? You started to say a little bit about that before, Josey.

Josey Milner
I have gotten such a great response from that song and, you know, it did really well for me. It went number one on the independent country music charts and its done really well on a couple other music charts. A lot of people have said they downloaded it and a lot of people I know that dont even like country music downloaded it because they love the song. So, you know, it makes me very proud to know that I was able to record it and that a lot of people have enjoyed that song.

MarySue Hansell
What do you hope your fans take away from your song, Not Pretty Enough?

Josey Milner
You know, I hope theyll take away from it that its its kind of a really strong message song and exactly what the lyrics say. Am I not pretty enough? Is my heart too broken? Its just about someone who still thinks theyre not good enough and, you know, you just have to make sure that you have the good people around you that make you feel like youre loved, that make you feel like you are worth being here and, you know, there are going to be times where itll be really hard to get through some situations but you just have to keep pushing on. You have to just keep making sure that you know you are good enough.

MarySue Hansell
Thats great. You know, we really wanted to figure out why you picked that song. Is that something that you heard before? Did someone say when you were younger that you werent pretty enough?

Josey Milner
That song actually, you know, that song is essentially by my manager, Michael, and Ive heard it. Ive heard that song actually a couple years before he send it over to me and once he send it over to me again, it was just like, wow. This is such a good song. I really, really need to do this one and for me, I think its the verses that really get ahold of my attention. Whenever I listen to a new song, its always the lyrics that I think of and listen to first and so you know, the verses when I first listened to them, theyre just such strong-willed verses and I think theyre beautiful. So thats what really got the hold of my attention on that song.

MarySue Hansell
Neat. Now as you get fame, you know, growing your fame, youre really getting popular now. We see your song is going up in the charts. But as you get the fame, do you find your school mates treating you differently?

Josey Milner
Definitely not. I still all of my friends still treat me the same that they did when I was in kindergarten. Ive grown up in the same school district all my life and so Ive grown up with the group of friends that I have. So I pretty much know everyone. They know who I am. They know what I do and yeah, but they dont treat me any different. You know, theyre always asking me where my next show is going to be or if there is anyone famous that Ive gotten to meet yet or anything like that. So they just ask me questions about it. They dont treat me any different.

MarySue Hansell
Thats great. Yes, we see all of your posts on Facebook about how popular youre becoming and were really rooting for you, especially since youre fighting bullying. Now how do you see music as being a powerful tool in fighting bullying and building self-esteem in people?

Josey Milner
You know, music is just one of the languages that its like the international language. Pretty much everyone listens to music and, you know, its a great way to get the message through since everyone does listen to it. And you know, no matter what genre it is, no matter who listens to it, its still going to be a great way to get a point across. And you know, I think songs all the time are being recognized for what they stand for and, you know, I think the song is a song to be recognized because of what it stands for and so, you know, like I said, its just everyone listens to music. Its actually a very, very great way to get a message out about something.

MarySue Hansell
Now, has music helped you personally get through hard times?

Josey Milner
What?

MarySue Hansell
Has the music the music that youre into, helped you personally get through your own hard times?

Josey Milner
Oh definitely, all the time. If there is any moment where I feel like the career is just getting too hard or I dont know if I can do it anymore of if Im just sad because of a bad day at school or anything like that, music is always right there. Its the first thing I grab a hold to. I grab hold of my headphones and I get ahold of my MP3 player and I just start listening to music and it cheers me right up. It has always been there for me and its always been something Ive always turned to in case I ever needed just kind of a couple of minutes to myself just to really regain myself and my thoughts. Its just I dont know. Its one of those things that no matter what Im doing, no matter how sad I am, how depressed I am, music just cheers me right back up.

MarySue Hansell
Thats great. Now what is the one thing you would want to tell a fan, a fan of yours that is being bullied?

Josey Milner
You know, I would tell them that I am always here for anyone who is ever needing any kind of help. I am more than happy to talk to anyone to help them get through a situation and like I was mentioning before, you cant let someone just push you down. You have to be able to take a stand yourself and if not, tell someone so they can be there to back you up. Things get hard sometimes. I witnessed it firsthand. I have dealt with it first hand and you know, people can be extremely cruel and extremely horrible. But, you know, the words are going to hurt but you cant let them really get to you. You have to keep a good head on your shoulders and just make sure you have the good, loving people around you and you know, youve just got to push through it. Youll be able to get through it. Like I keep saying and what I love to say is everyone has the same opportunities. Everyone breathes the same air. Everyone should be treated the same way.

MarySue Hansell
That is wonderful.

Raymond Hansell
This has been an amazing session with you and also with Kim, Josey. This is incredible work that youre doing. Actually were really proud that were featuring this for the Better Worldian listener audience right now. Its incredible stuff. Its needed in a very big way. I think music is obviously a great venue for this and its wonderful timing for you to join in on this movement and carry that banner in a very, very positive way for for both the Angels and Doves organization and also to to do so in a way that really sort of showcases your talents as well. Were going to take another break in a moment here but before we do, we want to let you know that we will be featuring the Josey Milner collection in our Better Worlds social game. Inside the Facebook game itself, youll find Josey Milner merchandise to accessorize characters in the game and to decorate your virtual home. You can find the Josey Milner collection by playing our game at Facebook dot com slash a Better World. When we come back, well talk more with both Josey Milner and Kim Harvey and advance this mission of anti-bullying and stop bullying as much as we can. In the meantime, well be right back.

Raymond Hansell
Hi. Were back with Kim Harvey and Josey Milner who together have a mission to stop bullying.

Gregory Hansell
Hi Kim, hi Josey. How are you doing?

Kim Harvey
Hi.

Josey Milner
Im good.

Gregory Hansell
I have a couple of questions for you both if you dont mind. Josey, my first question is for you. You know, through this whole campaign to stop bullying with Angels and Doves, Im wondering, what do you feel like youve learned about people, you know, through your work? Has it changed you? Has it changed your outlook?

Josey Milner
I definitely do think it has changed my outlook. You know, just kind of really getting to talk to people and seeing what situations theyve encountered and what things theyve had to go through, its really just kind of opened my eyes to really realize that things like this do happen. They happen almost every day and you know, just to kind of see the hurt that happens and see how it does affect people and it doesnt just affect the person that it happens to but it affects a whole family and all of their friends. You know, just to see how many people it does affect, its really kind of opened my eyes. So I think just one thing that I really take into aspects whenever I am looking at a situation like this, I want to make sure that people dont have to go through the suffering or the pain or anything that has to do with that comes with bullying. So it just kind of gets me a more I want to say positive outlook. I definitely try to talk to people as much as I can and encourage them as much as I can and just kind of compliment them and just kind of uplift their spirit.

Gregory Hansell
Sure. I mean, I imagine youve seen some of the darker moments but also I think some of the lighter moments. Have you had a sense of really seeing people there for each other and seeing the effect that your ambassadorship and your songs, your music, has on your fans?

Josey Milner
Oh yes, and you know, whenever you get to see people kind of backing up a victim or bullying or just backing up someone who is growing through a hard time, it is absolutely amazing. And, you know, just kind of seeing the kindness that there is in someones heart and how much they do care about another person, not just themselves, its really kind of a beautiful thing and when youre able to witness it, it just warms your heart. Its one of those things that it just you cant help but have a smile on your face.

Gregory Hansell
Sure, sure. What is your most important moment or your favorite memory since youve been an ambassador?

Josey Milner
There have been quite a few things happening. I think one of my most important kind of came within a dark time. I know this radio DJ who one of their close family friends children actually committed suicide because of bullying and they reached out to me to kind up help address the situation and they wanted me to really get the word out there and help them with the situation that was going on and, you know, help to make closure with the school and help to just talk about it. Even though it was a really bad part of their life, I was really fortunate. I was really kind of proud to be a part of it, you know, that they could reach out to me and to know that I was someone that they that they really looked up to for that kind of thing.

Gregory Hansell
Sure. Sure. Well you know, it seems to us and just judging by the growth in your fan base to everybody else that you are at the beginning of what looks like to be a very promising career and so Im curious. What are your goals moving forward both with your singing career but also with Angels and Doves and anti-bullying?

Josey Milner
Of course with my singing career, Im going to take it as far as I can and, you know, the big spotlight and the big stage and all of the crowds and the fans and everything. But I do want to keep Angels and Doves along with me. You know, you always hear about starts having to start an organization that theyre really involved with and I do Angels and Doves is that one organization I want to keep with me. Like I said, I love what theyre doing. I think its a great organization, especially for them to just be focused on the bullying suicides. I think it is such a strong message of what they are sending out there anyways and I just think theyre an amazing organization so I want to be able to do as much as I can with all of the power that I can just to kind of help them out as much as I can so they can really help make a difference and really, really stop the bullying and the suicides going on.

Gregory Hansell
So whats next between here and, you know, the Josey Milner airplane? What is the next step?

Josey Milner
In the future, you know, of course as much as I can. I really have been traveling a lot lately to different states and I am meeting a whole bunch of people and, you know, this is what you have to do. You just have to go out there and talk to people and get your music out there and get your name out there and just really build with it and work with it.

Gregory Hansell
What do you think would, you know, having what would it mean to make it both in your career but also for ending bullying?

Josey Milner
For my career, Ill start with that one first, I think for me to make it I have always dreamed of performing on the Grand Old Opry stage or the Ryman Auditorium. So I think if I was able to get to that point, I think I would be pretty satisfied and pretty happy with it, you know. Always the best artists and the best entertainers get up on the stages. So when I get to that point, I think Ill be really happy. And you know, with the with Angels and Doves and the bullying, just to really see the suicide rates drop and the bullying rates drop not just by a couple percent but drastically, I think that would really kind of show that things are working out and things are really starting to make a difference.

Gregory Hansell
Thats great. Well, thank you, Josey. We are rooting for you. Youve got a great voice and a great sound and we think youre going to make it so were very excited to see what happens next for you.

Josey Milner
Thank you so much. I really appreciate that.

Gregory Hansell
No problem. Now Kim, thank you for patiently waiting. I was hoping we could turn back to you for a few questions if you dont mind.

Kim Harvey
Sure.

Gregory Hansell
So Kim, you know, I know parents worry about their kids being bullied but they also worry that their kids might in fact be a bully themselves. In fact, I think I mentioned to you in a break or in a previous conversation about someone I know who said that they found their kids had been bullying someone at school. So how do parents keep their kids from becoming a bully and what advice do you give to those parents?

Kim Harvey
You know, a great way to keep your children from becoming the bully is dont bully them at home. Dont expect them to be a straight A student. Dont try to make them the star basketball player. Parents, sometimes, if they are too hard on their children and try to perfect them and get them involved in too many things, it is too much pressure and the children end up feeling bullied and go to this school and try to bully other people so that they can balance out that imbalance of power that theyre feeling at home. So that is definitely one instance that I can think of. The other thing is sometimes a child is being bullied by somebody that the parents dont even know about. It could be one of their siblings. It could be the babysitter. It could be a relative. And they dont even know that that is going on and then their child goes to school and becomes the bully again because they are looking for a balance of power. So make sure if you are a parent that you are highly involved in your childs life and if they look sad, it means that they are sad. If theyre not eating, there is a reason. If theyre not talking, there is a reason. Dont feel that you are stepping into their space and interfering. It is much better to get right in there and talk to them and find out what is going on in their life so that something bad does not end up happening.

Gregory Hansell
You know, thats interesting. You brought up two sorts of sources for bullying that I think a lot of people dont think a lot about. One of them was the stress, anxiety, pressure, expectation, sort of that whole group of things, and also this idea that it sounds like bullying begets bullying. Could you say something about those kinds of core causes?

Kim Harvey
Well, again, bullying is an imbalance of power. Its a psychologically based imbalance of power. So typically, you know, a bullied person becomes a bully because they have to find we all have to find a balance in power. No human being can be controlled by another person without, you know, rebelling. Its uncomfortable. Its not normal. So as children are growing up and trying to find themselves and trying to go through all of the emotional changes and physical changes that theyre going through, the last thing that they need is being controlled in an improper manner and that is why our kids become bullies.

Gregory Hansell
Yeah. I know you created a whole line of products to promote anti-bullying including authoring The Bully Book. Could you tell us a little bit about that book?

Kim Harvey
I wrote the book so that I could try and save children from harming themselves and give them some type of an outlet. The book is supposed to be their friend and it is interactive which is unique. Its a fill in the blank, draw pictures, and I dont want it to sound too elementary because it was written and published for students up through the seventh grade. And Tate Publishing actually published the book and really seemed to, you know, support the book because they felt that it was a suicide prevention tool.

Gregory Hansell
Thats great.

Kim Harvey
So I highly recommend that schools add it to their curriculum for grades one through seven and we really, you know, suggest that parents pick up the book and use it at home with their children.

Gregory Hansell
Thats amazing. Well, I know that in three years, you have spoken to more than ten thousand kids. What are your goals going forward?

Kim Harvey
You know, Id like to be speaking to about seventy thousand students a year and certainly the time is there for it. It is the funding that is lacking and you know, were very hopeful that at some point, several large corporations, several large sponsors will come on board and support us and what were doing and put their brand or their logo on our charity and, as well, support us, you know, with some sponsorship money and funding that will take us out into the schools across the country.

Gregory Hansell
Well, you have great plans then and you mentioned you need this money, funding. Just to help listeners at home, how can they help?

Kim Harvey
Well, you know, certainly follow Josey and Angels and Doves both on our website. Follow us both on our charity Facebook pages and we list our donation link regularly on our Facebook page. We have a wonderful website that is educational. It is a great place where teens and students can blog and meet other people and get help and it is a great tool for teachers and parents to log on and get information and donate as well.

Gregory Hansell
Okay, great. Well thank you for letting everyone know. Where is the website?

Kim Harvey
The website is Angels and Doves dot com and our Twitter feed and our Facebook links are both on our website.

Gregory Hansell
Perfect. Were going to take some questions now from our listeners. Lets see. Mike from New York asks to Kim, is it important first to shift the predominant perception of bullying from the dismissive let kids be kids or toughen up, to the acceptance that some children are tormented to the point of misery? In other words, how can we best help those kids despite that perception?

Kim Harvey
Well, you know, we first have to make sure that children students are not being told that bullying is just a part of growing up because that is not true. No child should go through bullying and people often ask, is bullying different than it used to be? Absolutely it is. It is intentional, its harmful, it is detrimental. Bullying is done on purpose. It is not a way of toughening up kids. It is a way that causes students to go inside themselves, into a very dark world, and again, ultimately commit suicide. So bullying is unnatural. Its abnormal and it should not be tolerated.

Gregory Hansell
Well thank you, Mike, for that question and thank you, Kim for that answer. Also a question from Nancy from Pennsylvania. How do you get a boy to recognize that they are bullying others? I have heard adult bullies state that they are correct in their behavior because thats them. What do you say to that?

Kim Harvey
Well, you know, were all humans and we all want to be treated well. Point blank. So no matter what age we are or what gender we are, we all want to be treated well and with respect, period.

Gregory Hansell
Thank you, Nancy. And one more question for Kim from Karen in Ontario, Canada. She asks, many bullies continue their bullying as adults. How do co-workers and teachers and service people and healthcare workers deal with them?

Kim Harvey
Let me start by saying that if schools bring a presentation into their a professional presentation on bullying into their school, it reduces bullying by fifty percent. That is a huge statistic so I encourage all educators in schools and parents to try and rally around the idea of having a presentation brought in. Therefore, we might not have as many adults acting out still with aggression and bullying if they had heard about it in school. If someone is being bullied as an adult, absolutely they should go to someone and report it because at any age, it is inappropriate and it is unacceptable and there are many people that want to help anybody at any age to protect themselves from being bullied.

Gregory Hansell
Well thank you, Karen. It brings up some interesting questions. I had never thought about this before and maybe this is crazy but, you know, you think people always do realize when they are bullying, that they have become a bully.

Kim Harvey
Do I think that people realize they are bullies?

Gregory Hansell
Yeah, that theyve become a bully? I mean, its probably some obvious examples, but I do wonder just based on Nancy from Pennsylvanias question, do some people not even realize that theyre doing it?

Kim Harvey
You know, based on statistics and research, bullying is intentional. So I believe that people do know they are bullying.

Gregory Hansell
Yeah. I mean, I think that makes sense to me. So let me ask you, what is the one thing youd want to say to the bullies out there?

Kim Harvey
Soften your heart. If there is something on your mind, talk to somebody. We know you dont want to be the bully. We know you dont want to be the bully. So reach out to anybody, us, a friend, somebody, and share your heart and change your ways.

Gregory Hansell
And what is your final message, one more takeaway for the listeners at home who are bullied? What do you want to say to them? What is the one thing you want them to hear?

Kim Harvey
Im sorry, to me or to Josey.

Gregory Hansell
Thats a question you. Im sorry.

Kim Harvey
The last thing that Id like to say is that we all have emotions and negative emotions are very harmful. They are very hurtful. They are very critical and the person who is the bully knows that all too well because it is already happening in their life and they are just acting out what is already happening to them. So, you know, dont do to somebody else what is harming you and hurting you, but turn it the other way. See if you can help somebody. See if you can be nice to somebody and maybe turn it into something that is positive and turn away from hurting somebody just because you were being hurt.

Raymond Hansell
Thats a great answer. This is Ray. Hi Kim, again. I just wanted to ask another question and that is do people inadvertently witness a bully bullying somebody and inadvertently pile on and then begin to feel worse? Why did I add to that misery? And what would you say if that does happen to people who witness it? Its almost like the third man in rule in hockey or something like that that actually makes things even worse.

Kim Harvey
Yeah. Here is what happens. In school, students are vulnerable and impressionable and they sometimes rally around the bully and become the co-bullies. But what were finding is they only do it for a short period of time and then they dont like it and they typically drop away and lose interest in it.

Raymond Hansell
I think if we can point that out to people, maybe perhaps they see it themselves but I think its important that you share your message that and Im sure they are seeing that as well.

Gregory Hansell
One last question for you actually. I think about my time in high school as a young man. You know, sometimes I think people see bullying happening but they dont have the courage to speak up about it. What would you say to those people out there listening? How to help them, you know, do what they need to do to help the situation?

Kim Harvey
Im so glad you brought that up. Were all responsible for helping other people. So if anybody witnesses bullying, you need to go get another person immediately. We should not stand there. We should not watch. We should not act helpless. We should not say, oh, I dont want to get involved. We are human beings helping other human beings and if we see someone that is being harmed mentally or physically or verbally, we should go get another person immediately to come help.

Raymond Hansell
Kim and Josey, this has been an excellent program. We really thank you for coming on board. By the way everybody, Kim has a lot of great plans for the future for Angels and Doves but she needs your help. You can find out more and donate to this important cause by going to Angels and Doves dot com. Also, to find out more about Josey Milner or to buy her music, you can go to Reverb Nation dot com slash Josie Milner. Josie and Kim, once again, we thank you so much for sharing your message and sharing your talents on the Better Worldians Radio program today.

Kim Harvey
Thank you so much.

Josey Milner
Thank you.

Raymond Hansell
Youre welcome, Josey. And by the way, we have an excellent lineup of guests in the coming weeks and if you know an unsung better worldian who would make a great guest on our show, you can send us an email at Radio at Better Worldians dot com. In the meantime, wed like to thank everyone today for listening. You can join the Better Worldian community at Better Worldians dot com and until next time, everybody, please be a better worldian.